New Vintage Modern owner

[sugarkane]

JK - Aw, hell - how far off-topic should I go here in fair reply? I'll assume I've got your invitation. I've stated up-front that a "rubbish" sound is highly subjective and that I wouldn't argue if you get results with instruments that make me unhappy. Also, I cannot agree more with Vavoom's "tone starts in the hands". Amen brother.

But ...

I do feel that modern guitars are not the best - some are, many are not. How can a 2011 Gibson Les Paul sound like its ancestors if it's drilled full of swiss-cheese holes for weight relief? Look at an X-ray of modern LPs. Got to change tone away from that which made it famous. Why does it happen? To make the damn things lighter for those standing up for three sets a night. Not a tone choice. Changes the bottom end and there's no way of the fingers getting that back. I fiddled with the VM for an age wondering where the hell to get those frequencies before I bought a 1978 Les Paul Custom. Yep, there they are. This is not subjective - it's just a physical fact (but which you prefer is up to you).

The PRS looked gorgeous (not why I bought it), very well made, easy to play, lots of sustain. It's over-brightness started to grind on me - it seemed to trade on icepick high-mids to get its characteristic chime unplugged that was thin through an amp. Was much better through a Mesa but did not like Marshalls that I've learned to prefer. Look at most PRS name players and see the amp choice (Santana, nu-metal etc.).

The Custom Shop Strat - worked for clean, just crapped out for rich distortion. Would work for some genres but never in a million years for the stuff we discuss round here. I think the CS label is highly questionable - it's not a custom instrument in a way that anyone understands the term. That's not to say that the CS produces anything other than fine products but they're not hand-crafted by Master Builders - we, the public, are just being charged a label premium to get the wood and other marks of quality that used to be standard priced (see also Gibson's 59 RI LPs). Great marketing device for selling what used to be a £1.5k guitar for £3k.

What works for me? A 1978 Les Paul Custom (£2k for the real article, £3.5-4k for the modern Custom Shop 70s John Sykes or Randy Rhoads reproduction), a 1982 "Dan Smith" Fender Stratocaster (£800 ebay impulse buy - half a modern Strat equivalent price). And a modern guitar I think sounds great (huzzah!) a limited edition 52 AVRI Fender Telecaster (near as dammit same as listed by Vavoom but thin-skinned and modern neck radius - straight swap for the PRS). So not opulently expensive preferences from me. I would pay any price for the sound I want.

In a tone contest (I know how unscientific that would be) it was not just I that went with these as being "better" (i.e full-bodied, rich, whatever adjective helps - more like a classic rock recordings with no ingenuity required from me) - it was everyone I knew from full-time pros to my (non-playing) wife. And it's a plug-and-go difference.

This is w-a-a-y-y off-topic but I believe it is what you wanted. My subjective preferences are based on music frequency facts drawn from classic recordings but I wouldn't dream of negating that which works for others with different ears, hands and hearts. My original post was, I think, relevant to getting immediate joy from the VM.

Vavoom - we have the same guitar so I hope the following helps.

52 Tele >>> VM LDR >>> Master Vol 10 >>> Detail 4-5/Body 1-2 >>> Mid-boost in or out >>> tonestack all at 5 (except Bass at 2-ish).

Put it in HDR for more of a Led Zep II vibe (I mean vibe, not a forensically perfect repro). Master Vol 5+. Keep pedals mostly the hell out of the way.

If that doesn't work for you then we do not share the same taste in sound and I respect your difference of opinion.

[Neylus]

Hi !
I'm not a new VM user, i've got mine for 6 months now, but i'm new in the forum !!
So please apologize for the "noob" questions and all the things that had been already said in the threads...
Thank you.

-Neyl

[Vavoom]

Holy Heck! Master on 10??? WTF?? If I'm in an empty house or huge club. In my demo studio, which is 20 x 12, I have to be creative with amplifier setups. Especially high wattage 1/2 stacks.

Here is my take on MOST (not all) amplifiers. You should be able to take a piece of crap Sears guitar and it will STILL sound good with a great amplifier. MY OPINION. Kind of like a guitar player. A really good guitar player with excellent phrasing and timing, intonation...etc. will make most any setup sound great. I believe most amplifiers are like this. Even the VM will sound good on almost any setting on the LOW DRIVE setting. For the 20 times I have played my new VM now, I have yet to get a GREAT tone on the higher drive setting without cranking. So here is my take now having the VM for about 3 weeks:

Low Drive setting: Easy to get tones just like any decent amp. Pedals are welcome. Actually most cab configurations are welcome.

High Drive setting: Need increased power (volume) and Gain to get good tones. Pedals can be a tone killer here, so tread carefully. Also cab/speaker selection is more critical.

My take so far on the settings.

Lastly, it's kind of funny how I hear the banter on "Detail should be this and Body should be that." OMG, way to many variables. Picking style, guitars, strings, pedals, volume that you can comfortably practice/gig with, etc.

Very lastly, since I don't even know what topic I should be on........I read a thread on dialing in tone whilst being in a certain position in relation to the cab. It is a very, very common error for a person to set their tone right by the amp and, say he's using a 1/2 stack, dial in a tone that sounds pleasing...let's call it the loudness setting. That tone always sounds great....low volume, ears way above the grille, no one else playing. Always turns out too bright and bassy. My quickest fix = use a long guitar cord and walk out where they're dancing, if no dancing 25 feet should do. Set to preference. You will no doubt use less TREBLE. Also it doesn't hurt to ask someone. Another common mistake IMO of course....is guitar players use (especially on cover songs) too much distortion. Understandably in cases where there is sparsenesss in the band. Just my take.

[sugarkane]

Holy Heck! Master on 10??? WTF?? If I'm in an empty house or huge club. In my demo studio, which is 20 x 12, I have to be creative with amplifier setups. Especially high wattage 1/2 stacks.

I'm laughing as I'm typing - yeah, Master Volume 10 sounds excessive but it was already a long post from me and I should have explained further.

I'd use that setting for a richer clean sound and back w-a-a-y, w-a-a-y down on the the guitar volume pot. To me, that sounds different from the other way round (guitar up, amp down). I'll push Detail/Body right up and it's still a nice way of doing things - clean but full rather than clean and crystal clear. On the Tele I also roll off some highs from the bridge pick-up with the guitar tone pot.

It's rare that two players on the forum pretty much exactly can duplicate their set-up and compare results so I'd be interested to hear how it sounds to you.

I also use a Hot Plate attenuator. I put off trying one for a long time because of the storm of controversy around them but I wish I'd gone with them sooner and I've since heard good results from name players like Paul Gilbert and Peter Frampton when employing them.

LDR especially seems to love max MV. HDR I can live with at 5+.