Attenuator and VM

[HappyBlues]

Hello I know attenuators have been discussed before but didn't find exact info I am searching for. So the question is:
I encountered VM to have bad scratchy top end when Master Volume is set for less than 11 o'clock It sounds almost like runnig distortion box straight to PA. The lower the MV the worse. And freqency response gets worse too, it sounds the thinner the lower the master is.
So my question is: Can I solve this by using an attenuator, so I can practice in bedroom levels without the terrible tone? I.E. Is this issue of VM's power amp (which is designed to run hot) or is this thing of speakers (which don't have the same frequency response at different volumes AFAIK)? So would an attenuator help me?
And does somebody have a Weber attenuator on VM?

Thanks folks...

[MKB]

I've noticed with my 2466 that the tone of the amp definitely changes when the master goes above 5 (or 5.5 if you're Nigel Tufnel 8) ), the sound gets much smoother. I've found this to be so not only with both of my cabs (2X12 with Vintage 30 and Eminence Wizard, or a 70's 4X12 with Greenbacks), but it also happens running the amp without speakers (into an inductive dummy load into a H+K Red Box). So it is most likely due to the power tubes and transformers just starting to saturate, and perhaps losing a bit of high end response. Or maybe its due to an interaction with the power supply.

[Dave W]

I have not run the VM's into a Weber yet, but it is on my to do/get list. If you look at whats out there as far as attenuators, the Weber is the most affordable and most versatile. It uses an actual speaker motor. It can be used with different ohm loads. It has post power amp equalization adjusments for bass/mid---mid/treble. I am refering to the Mass Lite series, the 50 or 100 watt ones. The 100 watter you can get sent to you for $160 plus shipping which should be in the $10-15 range as they use Fed Ex. So, for under $175 total you can crank it up. If you do not care for it, they go all day long on Ebay for the $125-145 range so you can dump it and get 75% of your costs back even after fees. I have used the smaller micro mass with Epiphonme Valve juniors and Blackheart Little Giant 5 watt heads and it worked excellent. Those are totaly different amps though. Paul Gilbert uses the THD hotplate with the VM combo. I cannot see in how with all the features/design with the speaker motor, equalization, Webers quality, that the Weber would not be at least equal in quality/performanmce if not notibly better/flexible than what else is on the market. With all that said, there are differing views on attenuators and tone/safety of operation. You have to remember too that there are four things going on when you play an amp on 10 full out. 1) preamp tube breakup 2) power tube breakup 3) speaker cone breakup 4) the movement of air in the room by the speakers being pushed. With using an attenuator you will have less of 3 and 4 compared to running your amp flat out without one. Even with less of 3 and 4, you may be very pleased with the results, it has to sound better with some poer tube breakup. If you have the money look at Webers new Mass III. It has the ability to engage the attenuator via footswith. I think that this may be a possible good option for the much posted question of how one can get the same unchanged tone with the VM for a solo boost, or at least very close to it. With the Mass III, I was also thinking it could be used with the VM high dynamic to lower the volume around the level close to the low dynamic range so one could actually use the VM as a two channel amp with the addition of a solo boost on the low dynamic side. For those players who play out live this really may be a great option. It seems to make sense that it would work in that application but we will not know until it is tried out. Someone is going to have to try it at some point, please post the results if anyone does. Good luck!

[HappyBlues]

Well, I use pedals at equality volume level to get overdrive tones and use VM on low dynamic range. I read in this forum it pushes only 35 watts in low dynamic range. So 50 watt attenuator should be more than enough for me, right?

[Dave W]

When you go to Webers website there is some in formation on attenuators that says you may want to use an attenuator that can handle higher wattage than your amp puts out as amp are usually rated on clean power. Thus a 100 watter amp may put out more than 100 watts if you have it dimed so if you putt the attenuator all the way down, it may not be enough. It is unusuall though that you would max the amp and the attenuator at the same time. I talked to Bob at Eurotubes.com about this and they also say on their website too that a 100 watt Mass Lite will work with a 100 watt head and even amps like Peavey 5150 that say 120 watts. As far as the VM combo in low dynamic mode, there is a recent post which you may have seen in the last few days that discuses the output of the VM 50 watter in low dynamic. You should have more than enough coverage with the Mass Lite 50 watt version, especially in low dynamic range. That will run you new $125 plus shiping, the same cost of a low to moderate priced floor pedal. I am looking into getting a 50 and a 100 watt version of the Mass Lite for two separate heads. There are no guarentees that all will go well, but I trust Weber products, they have not let me down yet. For those that are not aware, using an attenuator will run your tubes harder so they will have a shorter life. You cannot practice every day for hours and gig twice a week using an attenuator and expect the tubes to last forever and be upset when the tubes die earlier than one expected and blame the attenuator. If you crank an amp all the time the tubes die earlier too. Tubes die, thats just a fact. I think you have the combo. Check to see that the 1/4" plug from the speakers is long enough to reach the approximate area where you would be setting the Mass Lite on top of your combo amp. I do not know how much slack there is. If it will not reach the area you want, then when you are on Webers site, look under attenuator accesories. They had a cable that had a female connector on one end and male on the other for use with combo amps for under $10 the last time I checked.