Buffering an fx loop.

[Doc Holliday]

Hey guys, just a quick one...

I know a few of you guys like to place your pedals infront of the amp as putting them in the loop you get tone loss.
I personally like my reverb in the loop and tbh the delay as I find in front of the amp it tends to get a little carried away with itself at higher gain settings for my liking.

I was just wondering does anyone put anything in their loops to help prevent such suckage of tone..like a buffer or booster etc?

[kissfanps]

thats a good question. i never really use the loop so i dont know. i do however use a buffer sometimes at the start of my chain to keep a constant load on the guitar, but the obviously wouldnt be a reason to use it in the loop.

pick up one of these and try it out. for 40 bucks its a steal and you will always have a buffer on hand. http://this1smyne.com/shop/mb-mini-buffer/

[Doc Holliday]

Cheers kiss,
Although.... I have a CAE booster/OD infront of my amp to boost my LDR mode and am in the process of purchasing a Xotic EP as I've heard it may be a little warmer and fatter in comparison.
I was thinking of maybe putting the CAE boost/OD in the loop to compensate tone loss?
Ive currently got my Boss DD2 and Holy grail plus in there...oh and a hughes and kettner rotosphere.
The boss is already buffered but I might swap it out for the new flashback delay at some point.
I also was'nt sure how the OD side would sound in the loop????? You ever tried an overdrive in the loop?

The pedal in question is a MXR CAE mc-402.

[kissfanps]

to be honest, im not a big fan of loops. i do find that pedals sound better out in front, but hey that is just me. however, i would not suggest an OD in the loop. it is really not the place for it, especially the VM's loop. the VM has limiting LED's (?) that prevent an ignorant user from boosting too much (or something like that).

why not try everything out in front?

also, are you referring to tone suck when all the pedals in the loop are off?

[Doc Holliday]

Yeah, I have about 3 pedals in loop. 2 true bypass and my boss delay. I mean..that has a buffer but its nothing compared to the output buffers in my Roger mayer gear.
To be honest I had a plexi 1987x up until about 2 years ago and hated the reverb before the amp.
I had the Marshall reflector and then the EHX holy grail.
I have an aqua puss before the amp at the moment which is fine for classic rock but anything high gain and I find it a little overbearing. Having one in the loop after the pre amp just sounds abit more musical to my ears and a little easier to keep under control when boosting for a solo :)
But I hear what you're saying...i'll keep the cae out the loop because of the overdrive section.

[Onza_Jk]

You could probably just use CAE only engaging the Boost/Line Driver section of the pedal in the loop. That should act as a buffer, but a no go for the OD.
How do you find the overdrive on the MXR CAE MC402?

[Doc Holliday]

To be honest.... I use it for adding an overdrive rhythm section to a chorus at the moment.
i.e as a 2nd channel lets say. I use the LDR mode and HDR mode independently for different moods to suit different songs. In LDR mode i can play a verse clean and then kick this in for the chorus rhythm section. On its own.. not my preferred tone. Its a little harsh for my liking for say...blues, classic rock..

I bought it with the overdrive section as on ebay they were going for an extra 10 quid than just the single boost so I thought....bah..what the hell :)

[sikter]

Can someone please do a little test for me:
Connect one lead to return, another to send. Activate loop!
Do not connect any pedal on the other ends.
Do you get any sound! I don't think you should but I do!
What's going on? It's not loud but i don't understand how
do I get any sound. When I connect any pedal in my loop
everything works perfectly.
This is bugging me big time!

[SteveD]

It's simply a little bleed through in the circuit as there are some very high impedances in the loop send and return. This shouldn't be a problem at all when using the loop as normal.

[sikter]

It's simply a little bleed through in the circuit as there are some very high impedances in the loop send and return. This shouldn't be a problem at all when using the loop as normal.

Ok, I can get some better sleep now!

[sugarkane]

To be honest I had a plexi 1987x up until about 2 years ago and hated the reverb before the amp.

Just for anyone who might not know - overdrive/boost/distortion goes BEFORE the amp. Time based effects (delay, reverb, chorus, flange, phase) by common consensus go AFTER distortion in a signal path. Then your distorted sound has delays added instead of your clean delays having overdrive change them.

This was a challenge back in the day (e.g. original 1959s and 1987s from the 60s/70s) when amps generally didn't have effects loops so delays either went before the amp (kind of wrong - especially for greater overdrive - but what the heck if you like it) or slaved out a separate set of speakers just for time-based effects.

Didn't the 1987x re-issue have an effects loop?

[Slashwannabe1]

To be honest I had a plexi 1987x up until about 2 years ago and hated the reverb before the amp.

Just for anyone who might not know - overdrive/boost/distortion goes BEFORE the amp. Time based effects (delay, reverb, chorus, flange, phase) by common consensus go AFTER distortion in a signal path. Then your distorted sound has delays added instead of your clean delays having overdrive change them.

This was a challenge back in the day (e.g. original 1959s and 1987s from the 60s/70s) when amps generally didn't have effects loops so delays either went before the amp (kind of wrong - especially for greater overdrive - but what the heck if you like it) or slaved out a separate set of speakers just for time-based effects.

Didn't the 1987x re-issue have an effects loop?

I don't think theres a right or wrong way to do it regarding the time based effects, as each was has its subjective view and somebody may prefer both ways just depends on the day. But you are right that time based effects like Reverb,Delay,Flanger,Chorus & Phasers sound "cleaner & smoother" through the loop. Obviously through the front (pre amp) it will sound a little harsh or "fuzzy". It all depends on the kind of feel you're going for on where your pedals go. I've run my delay through the front for years, and sometimes it feels a little harsh in person, but on recordings its great because it really stands out. It all kind of depends on how I feel when I'm hooking the amp up. The smoothness through the loop is definitely a nice thing, but I prefer the EQ in front.

[Doc Holliday]

To be honest I had a plexi 1987x up until about 2 years ago and hated the reverb before the amp.

Just for anyone who might not know - overdrive/boost/distortion goes BEFORE the amp. Time based effects (delay, reverb, chorus, flange, phase) by common consensus go AFTER distortion in a signal path. Then your distorted sound has delays added instead of your clean delays having overdrive change them.

This was a challenge back in the day (e.g. original 1959s and 1987s from the 60s/70s) when amps generally didn't have effects loops so delays either went before the amp (kind of wrong - especially for greater overdrive - but what the heck if you like it) or slaved out a separate set of speakers just for time-based effects.

Didn't the 1987x re-issue have an effects loop?

Yeah I put all modulation and reverbs and delay through the loops on both my amps and have for a long time now. Overdrives have always stayed infront of the amp. I was just unsure whether I could use the boost section as a buffer for my loop and the overdrive for maybe a solo boost?
Having the use of an extra drive pedal and not using it just seems a bit of waste of money to me as you can imagine.

I have had 2 1987 in past and you are correct. My reference was wrong. I believe my 1st one had no loop. It was one of my first valve amps and to be honest I hadnt a clue how to use it. A few years later as I got used to non master volume amps and did my research I bought the 1987x which did have a loop. I sold it for the VM. No regrets but I do miss it..hence why I'm awaiting my YJM :)

[surlybastard]

Just a quick question, maybe SteveD can answer. Is the loop on the VM itself buffered, and if so does that then eliminate any need to have a buffer in the signal path to compensate for any signal loss by running through long cables between the send/return?

[timmyhiggy]

Just a quick question, maybe SteveD can answer. Is the loop on the VM itself buffered, and if so does that then eliminate any need to have a buffer in the signal path to compensate for any signal loss by running through long cables between the send/return?

Hi there,

I was looking into this and haven't found a definitive answer yet. Is the VM's FX loop buffered? I would like to use some long cables so I can drag them off to the side a fair way (I use the loop for delay and clean boost, might use it for phase when I finish building my pedal) as I have hundreds of cables (2 for loop, 1 for amp end of pedals that go out front) and would like to bunch them together! Before I take the plunge though, is the loop actually buffered or will this kill some tone?