Why does noise gate in DSL effects loop kill reverb?

[noise5150]

I use a noise gate in the effects loop of my DSL on a moderate setting just to get rid of excess annoying hiss/noise and an ISP decimator in front. Together they really make the amp silent without hurting the sustain but why does the noise gate in the effects loop kill the reverb? This doesn't happen on any other amp I own or have ever owned.

[ClassicRock88]

This is merely an educated guess, but it might have something to do with where the effects loop is placed. I do know that common practice is to set up any time based effects such as reverb or delay after the noise gate on a pedal board. The reason is that the gate will see the diminished signal coming from the effect and shut it off as "noise." It doesn't exceed the threshold setting on the gate. If the DSL's onboard reverb is placed BEFORE its effects loop you are probably having a similar problem. The onboard reverb doesn't exceed the threshold for the gate and the gate doesn't allow it through. Meanwhile if the gate where BEFORE the reverb (so the chain through the amp was PREAMP - LOOP - REVERB - POWER) then the amp would not have that problem. Does that make sense?

[sikter]

This is merely an educated guess, but it might have something to do with where the effects loop is placed. I do know that common practice is to set up any time based effects such as reverb or delay after the noise gate on a pedal board. The reason is that the gate will see the diminished signal coming from the effect and shut it off as "noise." It doesn't exceed the threshold setting on the gate. If the DSL's onboard reverb is placed BEFORE its effects loop you are probably having a similar problem. The onboard reverb doesn't exceed the threshold for the gate and the gate doesn't allow it through. Meanwhile if the gate where BEFORE the reverb (so the chain through the amp was PREAMP - LOOP - REVERB - POWER) then the amp would not have that problem. Does that make sense?

+1

[noise5150]

This is merely an educated guess, but it might have something to do with where the effects loop is placed. I do know that common practice is to set up any time based effects such as reverb or delay after the noise gate on a pedal board. The reason is that the gate will see the diminished signal coming from the effect and shut it off as "noise." It doesn't exceed the threshold setting on the gate. If the DSL's onboard reverb is placed BEFORE its effects loop you are probably having a similar problem. The onboard reverb doesn't exceed the threshold for the gate and the gate doesn't allow it through. Meanwhile if the gate where BEFORE the reverb (so the chain through the amp was PREAMP - LOOP - REVERB - POWER) then the amp would not have that problem. Does that make sense?

Yes that actually makes sense. Why would Marshall design it that way? Even my MG combo doesn't have that issue.

[surlybastard]

Someone on the Marshall Forum drew up this, I have no idea if it's accurate but it seems to make sense given the problem you're having:

CLICK HERE

As far as why they would design it that way, that's a really really good question. I've always thought that amp onboard reverb would go after the effects loop for this reason as well as for using time based effects. The only solution would be to buy a reverb pedal and put it after your noise gate, but again that's many you have to spend that you probably shouldn't have to. Weird.

[noise5150]

Does anyone know if the new DSL series has the same design flaw?

[ClassicRock88]

Perhaps it was a real estate issue. The DSL is a pretty cramped amplifier inside. It may have just been where the tank and the loop could have been physically placed most easily. Also, doesn't the DSL have a series/parallel option? If it does that makes sense. That way the reverb is applied before the signal is "split" if you are running the loop in parallel. I have a feeling though that it has something to do with the fact that the DSL's were using spring reverb tanks. Does anybody have a loop equipped JCM 800 or 900 and would be willing to test a gate in the loop to see if it does the same thing??

[ClassicRock88]

Someone on the Marshall Forum drew up this, I have no idea if it's accurate but it seems to make sense given the problem you're having:

CLICK HERE

As far as why they would design it that way, that's a really really good question. I've always thought that amp onboard reverb would go after the effects loop for this reason as well as for using time based effects. The only solution would be to buy a reverb pedal and put it after your noise gate, but again that's many you have to spend that you probably shouldn't have to. Weird.

I think that it's weird that the reverb is placed before the final gain stage. I would think that would be a terrible idea. Isn't reverb usually applied just before the inverter?

[noise5150]

I actually have a multi-effects unit going through the loop for reverb, delay and a little noise gate. I cant imagine why Marshall designed the DSL this way.

[surlybastard]

I was looking at diagrams of other amps by other manufacturers, the DSL is the only one where I've seen this issue. It's really odd