Here it is: Vintage Modern vs JVM 410

[GoldFacePlate]

I'm looking for your advise from the VM pro's here. I've read alot here and have heard alot of sound clips.

I am currently hunting out a new amp/cab setup. I have tried over 20 amp and cab set ups and have come home to a Marshall (doesn't that happen to most of us!)


anyways, I was pretty set on a JVM410 head through a mesa rectifier cab (vintage 30's), however I have recently fallen in love with the VM head. This is truly a tone machine, and very distinct.

I play everything from brit 60's rock to modern metal, so naturally I thought a JVM high gain modern amp fits the bill with tonnes of gain on tap, versatility, and control.
The VM on the otherhand is versatile in a minimalistic way, which is nice too, but really, I think the VM produces better tones overall. The major CON for me is I have yet to see a VM produce a tight and articulate metal tone from say.. Metallica or modern metal. Mabye with pedals though, on paper it looks good but I have not tried this, and this gets into another ball-game.

So i guess, my question is: Can the VM produce great overdrive with or without pedal that is on par with JVM (OD1 red setting for example).
So if costs work out, this could be my answer.

Alternatively, if I slap some KT66 tubes in the JVM, at the least, would I be able to start approaching VM tonal warmth, flavours.

Looking for all your thoughts and suggestions. thanks.

[Green Manalishi]

The VM can do it, look for a clip from Surf, I believe he used a Metal Muff, and it sounded really good.

Get the 2466, it has a tighter bottom than the 2266. If the metal tone is your primary tone, the VM may not be for you.

I much prefer the VM overdrive tone to the JVM. I guess that's why I own the VM.

Another thing, if you are used to getting different tones stepping on a fooswitch and always leaving your volume/tone knobs on 10, the VM will take getting used to. Not a big deal, you just learn better control of your instrument, which I think ultimately improves your tone and your playing.

[Taz5150]

+1 for the last post. The big difference playing a single channel VM is the guitar provides the all the tonal and volume variations. Using a JVM or similar the different channels can be set up and then switched in and out using the footswitch, the amp then provides the tonal and volume variations. Rob

[surfnorthwest]

I don't think you can put KT66s in a JVM without some serious mods, I think those also would ruin that amps tone. When I hear people say Metal well there are so many levels of that genre. The VM in High range can absolutly play Metal it is just a question if the tone is heavy enough for you.

I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss using a pedal as the VM takes pedal very well. If you are only needing those metal tones for a few songs why sacrifice owning a great amp like the VM, just use a metal pedal in front while keeping the amp in low dynamic range.

Here is a little demo of the 2466 with the EH pocket metal muff, I think this pedal as well as other metal pedals would get you there.

[CBoothe]

I had a JVM 410 that I really really wanted to like. In the end I sold it and went back to the VM for two reasons.

The first is my own quirk- I tend to fiddle too much and with the JVM and it's 4 channels, 3 modes per channel, my guitar time was like this: What about this pedal with this channel with this eq, or this channel, this mode with this eq and this pedal. it was honestly too much variety for me.

My biggest complaint though was the noise. Anything over OD green and to me and my skill levels it was just mush. I tried an ISP G string which worked great, but in the end I opted for the 1 channel VM. I threatened my wife with divorce if she ever lets me sell it. :high

It's obviously a kick ass amp though with plenty of people who swear by it. Just not for me. If you haven't already, check out the JVM forum here:

http://jvmforum.com/

[Slashwannabe1]

The major CON for me is I have yet to see a VM produce a tight and articulate metal tone from say.. Metallica or modern metal

Now you have



Straight Guitar and Amp. No pedals in the clip except a delay pedal and a true bypass crybaby wah only for the solo.

Me using a the VM on a modern speed metal song:

Many people lack the tightness on their lowend due to cranking the body up past 5 and almost everyone I see on youtube using a VM does this. All that is needed is a nice dose of body anywhere from 1-4.5 and a good sounding guitar and fine tuning on the eq to shape the rest of the sound.

[GoldFacePlate]

The major CON for me is I have yet to see a VM produce a tight and articulate metal tone from say.. Metallica or modern metal

Now you have



Straight Guitar and Amp. No pedals in the clip except a delay pedal and a true bypass crybaby wah only for the solo.

Me using a the VM on a modern speed metal song:


I've heard these clips already. They sound great for just the amp alone, but I'm looking for more overdrive that that, and perhaps even more tightness in the bottem end. I thought the EH Big Muff pedal mentioned above ended up adding its own flavours ontop of the VM tone which I didn't like. I guess the trick is to find a good OD pedal that does not add its own tonal characteristics to the VM tone.

I have read the JVM forums too. The JVM's take KT66 well, no sweat, but KT77 or KT88 and the amp will need some tweaking.

[Slashwannabe1]

The major CON for me is I have yet to see a VM produce a tight and articulate metal tone from say.. Metallica or modern metal

Now you have



Straight Guitar and Amp. No pedals in the clip except a delay pedal and a true bypass crybaby wah only for the solo.

Me using a the VM on a modern speed metal song:


I've heard these clips already. They sound great for just the amp alone, but I'm looking for more overdrive that that, and perhaps even more tightness in the bottem end.

I had pre amp volumes Detail set at 7 and Body at 3 on those clips. So theres quite a bit more room for more gain let alone if you use a eq like a Boss GE-7 or MXR-10 to boost the gain through the roof. If I were to Dime the detail and roll back the mids a bit and slightly bump the Body a bit you'd get text book Metallica Black Album tone. I have my mids at 7 to get a bit more bite than low end growl. With the detail dimed you definitely get more definition in the tightness of your sound, and theres definitely a huge gain difference from 7-10 on the detail knob.

I could record a clip for you tomorrow that will be set strictly for Metal and not the cross over metal/hard rock I do, I would do one tonight but my neighbors won't like me at this hour of the night if I crank the amp. Remember your pick ups are just as important to low end tightness as amplifier definition is. I notice a bit of a compressed tone with my alnico 2s compared to my buddies dimebucker equipped guitar which was made to do Metal riffs and sounds. As heard here- same amplifier gain settings in all clips on my youtube page except this clip has a Dimebucker equipped Guitar.

Most guys doing specific Metal tones like Metallica Black Album probably are using EMGs, Dimebuckers or some other Metal pickup to easily achieve that sound and not low/medium output pickups like the Alnico 2 pros that I used on those clips. With that said I still believe the gain in those clips is melting even for Metal standards.

[VMGravy]

http://proguitarshop.com/store/distorti ... ion-p-1063

[Green Manalishi]

A Boss SD1 or a TS9 in front used as a boost would tighten up the low end too, plus give you more gain.

[amon]

Forum member Erik van Hyde has some badass tones as well

[guitarkay]

I have both JVM and 2466 and everytime I turn on the 410, I think what a wonderful variety of wonderful sounds it has. And then I turn to the 2466 and stick with it.
And I learned to play songs differently with the VM. Whatever the style, I typically use the bridge PU and just vary the degree of overdrive. Which has the nice side-effect that all my sounds on all songs are more alike and make it sound like one player, one guitar, one amp. With the very different sounds on the JVM, I was not able to find "my" profile soundwise. Like somebody metioned above, too many options that all want to be explored....

[SteveD]

Welcome to the forum GoldFacePlate.

Keep the Body reasonably low and slam the front end with a suitable boost. Experiment with Mid Boost in or out. There is a wide range of tones available from the Vintage Modern's controls if you take the time to properly explore them. Check out the clips section for some great tones from our members here as well as various Youtube clips from others, baring in mind the clips will rarely convey the quality of the original tone 100%.

[Julesman64]

I usually just pump up the volume on my MXR 10 band EQ, leaving the gain alone, and that is enough to boost me into metal territory. I personally think that the HDR has enough gain on tap for anything I would ever want to play.

Seems to me everytime I try to mess around with my pedal collection I end up with just my EQ, and my OCD. Period.

[Mats A]

I have read the JVM forums too. The JVM's take KT66 well, no sweat, but KT77 or KT88 and the amp will need some tweaking.[/quote]

I´m not sure it will. The VM wont take EL34´s. You have to change the transformer if I´m correct.