Goodbye VM, hello JVM!

[SteveD]

...In fact the JVM comes closer in tone to my Plexi wich has a more compressed sound.

The Vintage Modern is related to the JTM Plexis whereas yours is a reissue of the later JMP Plexis. I told you that before.

There really is no problem with players liking what they want, that's the way of the world. If Chukka prefers the JVM then that is his personal choice. What did rankle me to be honest and I must agree with Slashwanabe here, was the urging to overlook the Vintage Modern altogether based on his personal opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable post up until that point!

[Slashwannabe1]

This from a guy who named himself "Slashwannabe."

That's funny stuff, dude. You're right, I'm an out-and-out A-hole for not liking the Vintage Modern more than the JVM. If only I shared your obviously superior opinions. I hang my head in shame.

As I've said before... don't take it personally just take it professionally.

I find your comments kind of close minded to judge somebody based off of a nickname, not really creative on your part but it doesn't matter to me.

Please keep in mind that I take no issue with you making the point that the JVM suits YOUR needs better than the Vintage Modern but to suggest to others to not look the VM's way just because you either did not feel its mojo,did not like that it was single channel, did not have the right supporting cast of equipment or know how to get the most out of the it, doesn't mean you get a free pass to slag the VM and slander it to everyone in favor of an amp that makes sounds totally different to the Vintage Modern.

Look I'm not a simple minded person I can understand if you prefer the tone/features of the JVM over the Vintage Modern, but isn't it a bit narcissistic on your part to say that because you like the JVM better than the Vintage Modern that everyone else should too? All I'm getting at is don't beat the VM up because you didn't get what its about.I think maybe you should have done more research on an amplifier before you bought it.

I said in my first post tone is subjective and to each their own, now why are you lashing out at me? just sayin'!.

[yngzaklynch]

Funny... I went from the JVM to the VM years ago and have absolutely no regrets!!

Jim

[Slashwannabe1]

You are a fucktard. Grow up, not everything YOU use is automatically the be all and end all or the best. People are allowed to have opinions that aren't the same as yours. And everyone has different musical tastes and needs. The JVM is easily the best sounding "high gain out of the box" Marshall, and if that's what the dude is looking for, then great for him! And please, please don't start wanking on about how the VM can do high gain, metal, etc. The gain on tap from a JVM is in a whole different league, and it's meant to be that way.

Also, you're seriously insulting the dude's gear? Saying that it's shit and he needs "sterile" (with an E, mind you) gain to cover it up? Have you read his gear list, and then have you fucking read your own???

Where did I say the Vintage Modern is better than the JVM in that post? Hmmm because all I seen the other dude do was slam the VM with his narcissist "because I own a JVM now its better than the VM" lingo and you try to pass it off on me as being that way!. I said I found the JVM to be sterile sounding compared to the Vintage Modern...thats my opinion and I never told anyone not to try the JVM, Infact I've told a lot of my friends & fellow musicians to try the JVM, The JMD-1, Vintage Modern and other Marshalls in the Marshall Tube amp Pro lines & so on to see what they like. I did not do what the other guy did and tell somebody NOT to buy or try an amp. I even said the JVM is an excellent amplifier, but its distorted tones didn't quite fit the bill for me which is why I have a Vintage Modern that does suit MY needs. I didn't go off telling him what his ears should hear, I simply took issue with the line he crossed at slandering the VM and discouraging people trying it out, that is all.

Your reading comprehention skills are not even fucking close to being up to par, because if they were you would have seen that I did not slander the JVM even once. Some people like the sterileness of the JVM and I did not tell people not to try the JVM. I'm not a big enough fan to want to buy a JVM and my opinion is subjective but I certainly encourage people to try it and make their own minds up. Slash-ed I think your reading skills are up to par personally, but you're using this as an excuse to take a stab at me because you're jealous of me. I don't have all the answers I'm here like everyone else to learn and be proved right or wrong in my quest to become a better player & tone technician, I'm just more vocal than others that is all and you may confuse that with me trying to be right all the time.

And yes I did rip on his gear...fucking sue me. You can have a $3500 Les Paul and a $3000 AFD100 Half Stack and it don't mean fucking shit if you have crappy pick ups,cables,speaker cab & little knowledge as to how to get the most out of it. Great name brand gear or expensive shit doesn't mean instant tone success, its finding what stuff works best with eachother to get the tone you're after, and if it doesn't work then yes its shit!!!!! and I don't fucking care if you're using one of Jimmy Pages 1970s Les Pauls into a 1959 Reissue, you still have to know whats going to compliment other gear beyond a brand name and THEN know how to set it up you twat!.

[KH Guitar Freak]

In short, I can definitely see two reasons that stand out in this thread as to why the some people are pissed off. One, the OP did mention of just looking pass the VM and straight to the JVM. Second, this is the MARSHALL VINTAGE MODERN section of the forum. Of course people are going to find this rather biased as it would seem to be a slag on the VM in favour of the JVM...

[slash-ed]

Your reading comprehention skills are not even fucking close to being up to par, because if they were you would have seen that I did not slander the JVM even once. Some people like the sterileness of the JVM and I did not tell people not to try the JVM. I'm not a big enough fan to want to buy a JVM and my opinion is subjective but I certainly encourage people to try it and make their own minds up. Slash-ed I think your reading skills are up to par personally, but you're using this as an excuse to take a stab at me because you're jealous of me.

I love the fantasy world you live in, princess.

First, let me point out that in that same paragraph, you say that my reading/comprehension skills are not up to par. Then, you say that you think they are.

Also, that I'm jealous of you? Please oh pleaaaase tell me how you got there? I don't need to talk about what I'm doing musically, or post a list of what gear I'm using, but let's just say that from what you've wanked on here about yourself, your life and your music... I'm pretty sure I'm not jealous

Yes, the bit about "don't waste your time, buy a JVM" was probably over the line, but it certainly did not warrant us having to waste 20 seconds of our lives reading your shit. That's punishment enough.

Also, how about you pick on Mr Beck-Ola too?

Roid rage? Drunk at the keyboard? Not getting any? Too much crack pipe? Arrested development? Watched Chef Ramsey too much? Could be many things.

Why the need to be so rude to the guy just because he prefers the JVM?

Or is it only the guys who aren't "established members" that you have the balls to get shitty at? :dance



I reiterate my fucktard statement. The defense rests.

[Slash1337]

Slashwannabe,

I'm not ragging you out, but you did say in your first post that the JVM is for "simple minded" players. That's a pretty offencive comment (I also take offence about it as well, but I won't stoop that low) if you're a player all about tone, which we all are I'm sure. Chucka09 just gave his experience with the VM and thinks any player like himself should not overlook the JVM. I'll be honest, if I had enough money at the time I would have gotten the JVM instead, but chris george sold the VM to me after hearing his demo, if not for that I would only have a JVM and maybe a JCM800.

Basically what I'm saying is everyone here who is actually arguing and having to defend their statements is wrong, it's not what we're here for. I mean obviously if you're on the VM forum and you decide to switch cause you don't like it a few members are gonna slag you for it, same thing if your on the JVM forum and switch to the VM. He wasn't even coming out and saying the VM sucks, he just said he tried and tried and coudn't find a tone that he wanted...

[chukka09]

... and I don't fucking care if you're using one of Jimmy Pages 1970s Les Pauls...

'Nuff said.

-- Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:18 am --

...If Chukka prefers the JVM then that is his personal choice. What did rankle me to be honest and I must agree with Slashwanabe here, was the urging to overlook the Vintage Modern altogether based on his personal opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable post up until that point!

First of all, I never told anyone to overlook the VM. And contrary to Slashwannabe, I never "slagged" or "slandered" the VM either. I said if you're torn between the two, just get the JVM. More than likely, if you're torn between the two, you've tried both and like the tone of both AND the flexibility the JVM is a serious consideration (which is where I was before I originally decided on the VM -- and yes, Slashwannabe, I did plenty of research before I bought). At the time I certainly was able to get tones out of the VM I liked, be it one-at-a-time, and I figured, "Well, maybe I'll be able to add the flexibility I need with pedals as others have apparently been able to." Also at the time the VMs I was looking at were less than half the price of the JVMs, so I took the leap, tried to save some dough and got the VM only to find I simply could not live with the VM's limited flexibility. Also, when I finally went back to the JVM and REALLY dug in, I found I prefer most of the tones anyway. That's just ME. My only intention in sharing was to save anyone who is in the same shoes I was the long and tedious process of becoming honest with themselves if the flexibility and tone of the JVM is what you REALLY need/want.

So to ease the minds of those I've offended, please, I concur, the VM is a great amp if it does everything you want/need it to. It didn't for me. If I was rich, I would incorporate one into a multi-head rig and use it only for a bluesy OD sound, but I am not, so the JVM works better for ME. I realize that's not the case for everyone.

Sheesh! You'd think I slandered someone's daughter for as sensitive as some of you guys are. I can understand it coming from SteveD since the VM is a daughter of sorts, but guys like Slashwannabe? Relax!

[SteveD]

I wish you the best of luck with your JVM, I sincerely do, but what you said is quoted below and more or less indicates that the decision is a matter of making a sacrifice by purchasing the Vintage Modern if you can't quite stretch to the cost of a JVM, (whether or not that was the intention).

There are players who have the Vintage Modern in their backline who could afford 20 JVMs and vice versa. They chose the Vintage Modern because they prefered the sound it gave them. You prefered the JVM for the same reason as well as the added versatility in presets. As far as I'm concerned, I'm happy that you decided to stay with Marshall

To anyone who is reading this and is torn between buying a VM and buying a JVM, I say save yourself a huge headache and keep saving for the JVM. The used ones are coming down in price and eventually you'll score one.

[Mats A]

...In fact the JVM comes closer in tone to my Plexi wich has a more compressed sound.

The Vintage Modern is related to the JTM Plexis whereas yours is a reissue of the later JMP Plexis. I told you that before.

There really is no problem with players liking what they want, that's the way of the world. If Chukka prefers the JVM then that is his personal choice. What did rankle me to be honest and I must agree with Slashwanabe here, was the urging to overlook the Vintage Modern altogether based on his personal opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable post up until that point!

I ment it more in a way to show that the JVM is not a sterile sounding amp. And a VM is far more easier to gig with than a JTM if you don´t use an attenuator or Power Scales it.

[JkGriffin]

Well, personally I've been considering both VM and JVM a couple of times.
The first time I ended up with a 65amps Lil' Elvis (that will stay with me until I'm left with no choice but to depart with it), but I swore that I will have a VM once while the JVM was forgotten.

A year after I didn't remember what the fuzz was about and I wanted a second amp... started with the Blackstar HT-5 but found that for a little more money I could get a little better... kept thinking this until I found that I've increased my budget so much, that I could go for a VM... or maybe the JVM was good as well??? and I learned of the AFD100. All within approximately the same price range.

Still waiting for the AFD to arrive, the local guitar store didn't have a VM in the shop, but I tested the JVM. I agree... it is extremely versatile and it does sound good, but there is no such thing as a all-in-one amp (maybe the Audio FX-Ultra... I don't know?). Then the shop got a 2266C in the store... which I tried. It took a bit of trying, but I eventually found both that Marshall overdriven sound I've been looking for... but also a nice crunched clean I hoped one day a Fender amp could do... you know... Fenderish clean with a bit of Marshall crunch. Absolutely stunning... the sound melted in my ears and therefore I don't believe I'll purchase the AFD, but I will try it out since I'm given the opportunity to before making a final decision. If I buy the AFD100 it only means that I'll buy the VM later...
The drawback of the VM is that LDR vs. HDR sound level and that it can't be set individually...

In my honest/humble opinion the JVM have made a bit of compromise with the sound in order for it to be extremely versatile and it did sound a bit sterile.
I'll explain. For an amp to appeal to me I need to like the sound and I need it to give me some feedback on how I am playing. Now VM don't forgive my mistakes... it'll broadcast my mistakes to anyone within hearing range... just like with my Lil' Elvis. And if I play well on the VM... then I get a sensation of mastering the guitar...a rush sort of speak. Could be slightly compared with when you finally nail that guitar solo you've been trying to learn. The JVM however... with that one I can easier hide my technical limitations. I can speed up my picking technique and it sounds like on top of things. It really doesn't give me any feedback on my playing at all...unless I really screw up (playing wrong chord or out of tune or something).. that is why I experience it as a bit sterile and it is how I experience it. It was fun though...

Mind you that I'm not looking for some high gain metal stuff, but more juicy gain and possibly a nice subtle crunched clean that have that distinct Marshall signature ringing out of the speakers.
Still, I admit that you may be able to fool me with a blind test between the JVM and the VM... but not with me playing... unless you are really mean when tweaking the settings of course.

I am definitely a gear whore (picky about my sound) seeking my optimal sound and using a lot more time seeking that sound... time that maybe I should have used practicing the guitar. I think that I somewhere back in a malfunctioning part of my head I believe that with better sound I'll make better songs and get rich on royalties one day.
I wish there was a Marshall that had the power attenuation that comes with the YJM and AFD, while having the possibilities of saving your settings on the pedal that comes with the amp like on the JVM... that sounded like the VM. An amp like that I would pre-order the minute it was available... ANYONE AT MARSHALL AMPLIFICATION HEARING THIS???
If you do... I will allow you to call it the Marshall JK100, Jk Signature 100W head... and put me down for the first run

And Chukka... if the JVM floats your boat... then congratulations. I truly hope it's a keeper.
Hope you don't take this as slagging the JVM... I really didn't... just wanted to say something about the user experience AND give Marshall inspiration to make the JK100

[chukka09]

... what you said is quoted below and more or less indicates that the decision is a matter of making a sacrifice by purchasing the Vintage Modern if you can't quite stretch to the cost of a JVM, (whether or not that was the intention).

To anyone who is reading this and is torn between buying a VM and buying a JVM, I say save yourself a huge headache and keep saving for the JVM. The used ones are coming down in price and eventually you'll score one.

Again, refer to my previous post.

And Chukka... if the JVM floats your boat... then congratulations. I truly hope it's a keeper.
Hope you don't take this as slagging the JVM... I really didn't... just wanted to say something about the user experience AND give Marshall inspiration to make the JK100

JK, I don't take it as you slagging the JVM, but even if you were, slag away. Why would it bother me? After all, I didn't design/build the amp and I would hope that the point of an amp forum isn't just to offer one point of view about the amp. I know when I first started coming here as part of my research before buying my VM, I didn't come just to read the VM's praises, I also hoped there would be some candid discussions on the VM's downsides from people who have actually owned and invested time in the VM. So that's the whole reason for my post, to offer another valid and relatively qualified perspective since I've owned the amp, invested a ton of experimentation time into it, gigged with it, jammed with it, recorded with it, etc. I invite everyone here to take it for what it's worth. Or don't, that's cool too.

[surfnorthwest]

I want to chime in here. You will find many posts talking about all aspects of the Vintage Modern here. Members have written about its great tone, limitations, and technical issues over the years. I think if you have visited this forum you will discover the good, bad, and the ugly.

This site does not exist simply to praise the Vintage Modern, in fact there are very few homers on the site and many of us love the VM along with out other amps also. The site exists as a community of players sharing information and support for the Vintage Modern range.

There is also discussion about other Marshall's here aswell. In fairness to the JVM site I have not included a discussion area for that amp here although many other Marshall's are represented. Marshall offers many different ranges for different players, the Vintage Modern fills a very important void for certain players.

I find the Vintage Modern to be a pure players amp. Single channel using old school techniques to interact with the amp. Some members have moved on to other amps, other members continue to love the tone it produces and even some have regretted selling it only to buy another. The fact reamins that many of us are getting great tones and performance from this amplifier, I would be sick if I were to go without the amp but I understand it won't be for everyone.

Good luck.

[jeffster]

You know, the thing I never understood about people on forums is how worked up they get. I have bought and sold more amps than I can remember. Some I wish I had back, some I am glad they are gone. For example, my 6100LM I am glad to not have it anymore, but ask all the 6100 owners on the other Marshall forum and they'll tell you it is the greatest amp Marshall ever built, and really, good for them for finding the one amp that makes them happy. It wasn't for me and I had it for years and was never happy. I have both the 2266 and the 2466 and while I love them too, there are some things that I am not a fan of either, but that's ok. I ordered the AFD100 from Sweetwater (thanks for the tip Surf), and I don't expect it to solve everything either. My goal is to use the VM for certain things and use the AFD for certain things and then if I get a wild hair up my backside, maybe use another amp in there too. But, I won't cast stones at those that like something else better or don't like my amp decisions. Hell, the other guitar player in our band has a Rivera that suits him perfect. Not for me, but works great for him. I am just appreciative for Steve being on here and being super helpful. That adds immense value to the amp overall in my opinion.

[Slashwannabe1]

Slashwannabe,

I'm not ragging you out, but you did say in your first post that the JVM is for "simple minded" players. That's a pretty offencive comment (I also take offence about it as well, but I won't stoop that low) if you're a player all about tone, which we all are I'm sure. Chucka09 just gave his experience with the VM and thinks any player like himself should not overlook the JVM. I'll be honest, if I had enough money at the time I would have gotten the JVM instead, but chris george sold the VM to me after hearing his demo, if not for that I would only have a JVM and maybe a JCM800.

Hey its not a problem Slash, But there are a few things I should clear up... during a post many things can happen and wanting to rip someone a new ass hole is one of them, sometimes intentionally and sometimes unintentionally in the heat of the moment and sometimes its impossible to be completely politically correct in proving your point or in trying to prove someone else wrong.

I love the JVM410 the few times I've tried it, but in those times I've tried it and heard others even Slash using it himself on his Australian tour, the tone was just not very special to me or rather it didn't have the mojo I was looking for, but if I had one I certainly would be happy with it and I'm sure I could find some usable tones. My "simple minds" comment was made to the channel selecting & all the effects seeing that a lot of the people I know think effects & options are what make an amplifier great and I think thats missing the point to think thats what matters in an amplifier, I believe in tone first and foremost over everything else.

I must state this again and weather some of you hate me or like me at least give me this...I stated I respect his decision on changing amplifiers but I DID NOT respect how he went about slagging the Vintage Modern to others and to not even try it. I think he went beyond his opinion license when he started saying that as fact for people to just buy the JVM Thats my only issue. And like Steve said, I'm glad he's still with Marshall, but I personally felt he should have dropped the condecending comments. And Slash he did not state any player like himself, he used a blanket term and I'm sure he meant everyone not just players like himself.

-- Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:45 pm --

I love the fantasy world you live in, princess.

First, let me point out that in that same paragraph, you say that my reading/comprehension skills are not up to par. Then, you say that you think they are.

Also, that I'm jealous of you? Please oh pleaaaase tell me how you got there? I don't need to talk about what I'm doing musically, or post a list of what gear I'm using, but let's just say that from what you've wanked on here about yourself, your life and your music... I'm pretty sure I'm not jealous

Or is it only the guys who aren't "established members" that you have the balls to get shitty at? :dance



I reiterate my fucktard statement. The defense rests.

Buddy don't hate me cuz you ain't me!

I don't care who you are...if you piss me off you're going to get it!, I've had run in's with admins & mods on here before and while our engagment was quite bitter and angry we ended up being pals no less than 20 minutes after our posting battles because we both realized we both had valid points. Believe me I've been banned off of every forum I've ever been on (8+) except this one and I hold nothing back even on this one. By the way I take no issue or offense to Beck-Olas post because he's probably right maybe I do watch too much Ramsay.

You don't post any of your stuff because you probably don't even own a Vintage Modern or any noteable gear and are afraid if you did post what gear you had people would laugh because none of it works together. You're probably one of those wannabe Marshall owners sitting on youtube beating off over those of us who do have one. Wank that you fuck face. I know because I used to do that and you sound just like!.

Maybe you should let your Mum have her computer back. Bedtime Bonzo.