Volume Boost options?

[frank9310]

Hmm not sure I follow you on that. If you set the amp to already be at max lead solo tone you want, then set the equalizer to it just boosts that volume without changing it's tone, then turn it off. Then back off the guitar volume to be in a good rhythm mode. Now when rolling up your volume you're in lead mode and kick on the eq and you've got volume boost. So why would it sound dry on rhythm?

[Slashwannabe1]

Hmm not sure I follow you on that. If you set the amp to already be at max lead solo tone you want, then set the equalizer to it just boosts that volume without changing it's tone, then turn it off. Then back off the guitar volume to be in a good rhythm mode. Now when rolling up your volume you're in lead mode and kick on the eq and you've got volume boost. So why would it sound dry on rhythm?

You answered your own question,

You are kicking on the EQ and turning the Guitar volume up for solo boost, both increase Gain and it leaves the rhythm tone cleaner, but if you like a cleaner rhythm thats up to you. I do see what your saying with volume roll down when the boost is on, but might that be a bit counter productive? seeing the eq boost will be doing the gain more so than the volume instead of your guitar knob doing it your eq will?



What would actually work better is to have the EQ cut the volume for your Rhythm tone when its ON and when its off you'd have your amplifier core sound louder. Even with this setup its still something thats being done before the preamp and screws with your gain settings and the preamp of the VM is very sensitive to volume/gain correlation which is why we have such a issue with solo boosting in the first place!. As I've stated before, a volume drop doesn't work with my Guitar/Amp set up. I still have the same volume when I roll down its just cleaner, and volume only drops off when I'm below 2 on the guitar volume pot and by then its way to clean for the music I play.

As I've said like a broken record before... modding another master volume just for lead on the VM would be the cleanest way possible to do Lead boost.

[maxrossell]

Your problem is a piece of cake to solve using an MXR KFK 10 Band Equalizer for $140 or $100 used. Plug it into loop. Set all the frequencies to the 0 unity position. Then turn the volume up to as loud a volume increase as you want it to be. Then on the far right side, turn the gain down a tad until it's equal to the amount of gain you have without the EQ being on but the volume being boosted. Problem solved. If you get an odd boosted frequency, back it off a tad on one or more of the mid to highs and you still have louder volume with no perceivable tone change. Works for me!

See http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page ... oducts/mxr

Let me see if I've got this right:

1. Plug MXR EQ into FX loop
2. Turn up MXR volume until it's as loud as I want my boost setting to be
3. Turn down the MXR gain until it has as much gain as I want my lead tone to have.

Is that right?

So, three questions:

1. Does this work equally well with LDR and HDR?
2. Since what you're describing is basically a boost (albeit with variable gain on the boost input), and you're saying it works fine to get a good boost, why are all these guys on the forum saying you can't get a volume boost via the FX loop?
3. Given that I don't actually care if my solo boost tone is more saturated than my rhythm tone, would what you're describing work well with a basic clean boost, or is the gain reduction necessary to get the volume boost?

[frank9310]

I see your point Slashwannabe. I know there's that one guy on youtube that does a channel switching and solo boost mod you might want to check out.

As for me, I'm ok with turning up the volume for solos etc. because I get too confused with all the channel switching stuff. I only explained the Equalizer thing because of another thread I have posted about a squealing issue I had with my Marshall Power Brake. So I tried it there in the loop while the power brake was squealing and was able to dial out the squeal while keeping the volume up. While I don't use this method for rhythm and boost, I just knew it would work based on my experimenting with the power brake.

Instead, I learned how to run rhythm and lead solo just watching Robin Trower live this year on 3 separate occasions using his 2 x VM stereo setup. I posted his amp settings in the sticky thread and I believe it's the latest one. Robin's tone has a lot of gain on tap (enough to cover Slash tones) but how he has it all set is he has the high range on both amps with detail-body ranges both set at 4, MV set at 8, presence 0 and bass, 2, middle 4.5, treble 4. Then he has his Fulltone Robin Trower signature overdrive with volume set on noon, drive on 3, tone set at 3pm which acts more like a dynamic clean boost. Mind you, with the amp set at 8 along with the RTO pedal it has raging rhythm tones as well as soloing capability to blow the roof off.

However, when he does a solo, he kicks on the Fulltone Fulldrive 2, which is a glorified tube screamer, minus the nasal part. He has the volume of the FD2 set at 4 (11am), tone 8, Drive 1 (very clean). When he kicks that on, all you hear is a slight volume boost with no perceptible change in tone or gain whatsoever.

Thus, that is exactly what I use and it works like a charm. Here's that youtube clip of the modder guy. As for me, why mess with perfection? ;-) To the boutique-ers every additional knob, button, loop, etc. added is just one more tone sucker and an additional point of possible failure. I used to have a Dr. Z Route 66 (KT66) and it had a volume, tone, and bass control. Period. But that amp had some of the best tone I ever heard. I just wanted something that had a little more of a vintage design with more available gain on tap which is what the VM has for the type of stuff I play.

Whatever works best for you IS best...

[youtube][/youtube]

Here's just the solo boost mod

[youtube][/youtube]

[C0ldFart]

when boosting in loop, I've read that it's possible to get to where the loop return clips in the "limiter"

and that clipping is not what we want is it?

a old volume pedal in the loop is very easy tested out

flat out - solo
backed up about a few % is rhytm
flat out with guitar vol rolled back is clean

[Doug_MVM]

Keep it simple. I run a Boss EQ pedal, and I stick my Boss Delay right next to the EQ (both in the loop). I leave the EQ flat, and just bump the EQ level control up a touch. For the lead, I simply bang both pedals down at the same time, and I get the boost, with the delay for ambience. You can also use each pedal separately of course for a dry kicker, or the delay without the kicker. The cool thing is, you can use the same pedal board config with all your amps (if they have a loop). I have noticed different effect loops will require a slight tweak on the delay and EQ levels, but it's no big deal, as it's all right in front of you at the gig. (To make the adjustment on the fly) In terms of maybe some added gain during the boost, I consider that a plus, as I like a little more gain during the lead break. I know it's all subjective, but that's my take. Very nice discussion for sure. Thanks for reading.

[Jeando]

Hello guys, i´m a new Blog member and a new Vintage Modern owner. I have been reading some of the volume boosting solutions posted here and i want to share the mine one. I have a Boss GT-8 pedalboard and i solved the volume problem with the called "4 cable method". The GT-8 has a FX-loop that can be moved to anywhere in the FX chain and one can control parameters like "Send level" and "Return level" asigned to whatever pedal. The Four cable method is wired like that:

:Guitar: ----> :GT-8 Input: / :GT-8 Send: ---> :Amp Input: / :Amp Send: ---> :GT-8 return: /
:GT-8 out: --> :Amp Return:

My Fx Chain in the GT-8 may look like this:

:Wah: ---> :Compressor: ---> :Overdrive: ---> :Fx Loop: ---> :GT-8 Preamp: ---> :Modulation FX´s:

So, if i want to use my VM for preamp and power, i bypass the GT-8 preamp (in fx chain) and enable the fx loop. Then, i control the GT-8´s return level with the volume pedal and so the final volume one hear. (note that the GT-8´s return level go to the amp power stage.

The GT-8's send level go to the Amp's input, so leveling too much up will crank the Amp's pre tubes and too much down will result a less driven sound. (the same that having a volume boost between guitar and amp without GT-8).

If i want and more dirty sound, i can enable the OD fx in the GT-8 (some like Boss OD, or Tube scream OD) and sounds very well. Note the OD FX is behind the Amp's preamp. and is like an OD stomp box in front of your amp.

Finally, and my favorite one, if i want to use the GT8's preamp (cosm modelling and so on) instead of the VM preamp, i only need to disable the GT8's FX loop and enable the GT8's preamp (this can be done in one pedal click), this way, the output of GT8 goes to the return of the amp (and the amp's preamp is bypassed).

With this configuration i can boost my volume in my solos without changing the gain in the preamp and can change the preamp saturation or adding an OD without changing the final volume. I'm sure GT8 isn't the only pedalboard with this feature, so, a recommend to you, it is working for me .

[slowpokerhino]

Welcome Jeando!

[HappyBlues]

My way of channel switching in a VM with Boss GT pedal is like this:

4CM method (so Preamp of VM is connected in Effects Loop of GT-8)

then: I set two variables:
One variable - Effects loop send. Min 18 Max 100 controlled in my case as triggered by Sub-CTL1
Second variable - Effects loop return. Min 100 Max 30? controlled in my case again as triggered by Sub-CTL1...

Then I set Effects loop to one of the desired states, for example clean, so Send 18, Return 100...

From now on, you can switch channels on VM by flicking a footswitch.

Tweak levels to your desired gain and volume variatons...

And you can add for example third variaton, which will turn of Chorus or Reverb which level would be set to 0, so you have indicator whether you're clean or dirty....

Simple as that.

[Jeando]

I tryed another idea, i did plugged a mono cable between footswitch amp's jack and the "AMP control" in the GT8 and programmed that feature in my path controlled by sub ctl1, so i can change the send and return level and plus the dynamic range of the amp in one click. the only problem is that the SUB-CTL1 must be an always open switch.

[HappyBlues]

you can program the amp control to be always on, and trigger off when footswitch changed... it can be done...


it will be something like


Min=ON, Max=Off, Type=(Not trigger, the other one, can't remember), and all you need now is a momentary switch

voila...


GT is a great effect... never found anything similar...

[Jeando]

you can program the amp control to be always on, and trigger off when footswitch changed... it can be done...


it will be something like


Min=ON, Max=Off, Type=(Not trigger, the other one, can't remember), and all you need now is a momentary switch

voila...


GT is a great effect... never found anything similar...

Hi Freesun, thanks for the reply. well, in my experience when connecting a mono footswitch cable between VM amp's jack and AMP-control in the GT8, the effective change in dynamic range occurs when the AMP-control is activated twice, it means, i.e. if the AMP-control is on, the dynamic range change occurs when AMP-control goes off and then on again. Because of that, I did installed a "always open" (always closed must work as good changing min and max values in the patch) button as the SUB-CTL control. So, when i press and depress, AMP-control goes off and on and the dynamic range change. The only thing about care is the programmed switch mode. To assign more than one action to the SUB-CTL pedal, the AMP-control must be in "normal" mode and any other effect must be in "toggle" mode.
No one has asked, but yes, we are neglecting the VM reverb when using a mono cable.
The send and return level you use looks good, i´m very close, but i will try send min values of 30-60 to use the volume pot of the guitar, will see.
Maybe, some of this post can be moved to a new topic "VM and Boss GT-8", sorry if anyone feels disapointed.

[Motorbreath]

First of all: I'm new to the board and I'm learning a lot about valve-amps as well, here. The VM (2466 + 425A) is my first all valve amp and my second Marshall to date. I am totally addicted, ask my wife!

Alltough the volume-boost question is relevant, are'nt missing we the point of the amp here? I've picked the VM for it's classic golden Marshall-tone en for it being a simple straight-forward amp: you, the guitar and the amp. No preset-channels, no stomp boxes, no dead batteries, no need for al lot of power supply on stage... . Give me a VM, give me a guitar and just 1 cable and I'm rocking. Freedom!

This being said: how did they do a solo-volume-boost in the old days with single-channels amps like the Plexi and JCM800?

Keep up the good work all!

Gear: Vintage Modern 2466 + 425A cabinet, Fender Telecaster Thinline 72 reissue, a big basement with 30cm-thick concrete walls

[HappyBlues]

I guess they say, in the old days you would have volume rolled back to say 6 or 7 and bring it up for solo...

And yes, I love VM for being straight forward... But I play venues where you have to precisely controll volume of amp... you can't go up 5 dB for overdrive...

[Jeando]

Hi motorbreath, welcome.

I'm in the same situation with my wife jejeje :cuss VM is my first tube amp. My style requires sometimes rythm and lead guitar with a lot of gain that can't be achieved with the guitar pot in 5 or 6. I think the concern to some guitarist (least mine one) is to maintain the same gain and level up a little in the solos. Furthermore, to can change from a very dirty sound to a really clean one maintaining the volume it´s difficult to me, because i need to get the pot down and change from the HDR to the LDR. Instead of that i do prefer one pedal click.
I think the old school didn´t neglected pedals (or pedalboards) at all. Hendrix, i.e. used to use a fuzz and wah (hendrix is the older guitarist i hear), i always heard most of touring guitarist use a preamp/OD to push their amps during solos. (Satriani i.e. only uses the clean channel of his tube amp and a BOSS OD).
I maintain the VM because i like so much its sound, clean, overdriven a really distorted (with my TS9 in front), because of that i'm looking for a effective "virtual channel changing" and volume boost to avoid selling it and buying another.