A Question for those with OD boxes in the fx loop

[Crunchifyable]

I know a bunch of you guys are using dirt boxes with the gain on 0 and the volume at what ever you like to basically act as a master volume and a fizz filter.

I know it fixes the fizz, but does it mess up the clean channel? Does the OD box add perceptible overdrive to the tone? I'm talking about channel settings of between 5 and 10.

The one thing my MA has going for it, that no amount of knob tweaking can mess up, is a sterling clean channel, and I guess it would be awkward to have to turn off the OD box and then hit the footswitch to change over to cleans. Guess I could get used to it. Guess I'm just wondering if any of these boxes really do have no added distortion when set to the lowest gain setting.

When I try this with my digitech stomp box modeler (In a digitech RP processor), I always get too much stomp box Overdrive added and kind of defeats the purpose. Kind of hoping "real" ones like a Digitech Blues / Monkey / Or Boss SD-1 will really be a "No added gain" type of solution.

[txslowhand]

Crunchifyable,

I have to agree with you (and many others) that the clean channel on the MA series is one of its best strong points.

There are several threads that discuss using a OD stomp box as a master volume in the effects loop. Essentially using the OD box as an attenuator. Depending on which stomp box you go with some color will be added. Usually, the color added is well within one's acceptable tolerances. I took a slightly different approach and went with a passive attenuator I got for dirt cheap out in eBayworld. One of the reasons I went this route was because I was running out of AC sources to dedicate to a stomp box that was going to be used just for attenuating purposes.

Below is the passive attenuator I use. It's really nothing more than a volume pot in a box. You could just as easily make one yourself....I was just lazy and splurged on the 15 bucks . It serves its purpose and requires no power source. Right now I have my MA50H volume on the clean channel set to 7 and can dial in a comfortable level with passive attenuator. I have my OD channel volume set to 7 as well (gain at 6 to 7). My wife thinks the $15 investment in the passive attenuator was a very wise thing to do (if ya know what I mean) .

[Crunchifyable]

Thanks for the reply txslowhand.

I was thinking about one of those volume boxes too. Seems like a handy thing to have around the house if you have a few tube amps. Thanks for the pictures of it.

Any idea what value pot it uses? Looks like a 500k to me. I'm pretty sure I have spare 25k, 250k, and 500k pots lieing around, and some spare jacks too. I kinda want an od pedal to mess around with anyway, so I may end up trying both and seeing which I prefer. Leaning towards the SD-1.

I don't mind a bit of coloring or darkening, I just want my distortion to come from the amp most of the time :). Glad to hear the od box sort of worked for you, minus the power issue. Right now I have room at home for 2 pedals + zoom recorder + 2 amps on one power strip, so I think I'll be good.

I hear ya about the wife :D. For me though, reducing the volume is as much about reducing the strain on my ears. I guess too many years of practicing in a small space with 40/50 watt amps :).

[txslowhand]

Not sure of the value of the pot. Just know it's a cheap alpha pot. I'd try the 250k out to see how that works for you.

[Crunchifyable]

I may have written this else where, but I'd thought I'd update it.

a 25k pot worked okay in the loop. I didn't have a 250k to try. My guess is that something between 25 and 250k is best. 500k was way too much (more like an on / off switch)

But maybe someone with more knowledge could chime in as to what would be optimal for a passive effects loop volume attenuator.

I tried a bad monkey in the fx loop and the coloration / slight overdrive seemed to much for me, at least in the 10 minutes I tried it. Didn't have much chance to try the OD channel since I was mostly curious of how the clean channel would react. Oddly had more pedal distortion with humbuckers than with singles, so maybe I was hearing the amp overdrive too. But I doubt it (clean channel on 5).

For now I think a passive attentuator or a active volume pedal (like a digitech RP set to do nothing but adjust volume) would be good

[washburn 1]

Hi mate.Thought i would just add to the thread that today i was fiddling around with an old Boss HM-2 on the clean channel, just using it to drive the front end with the gain off. Very slight grit with chan` vol about 5 but dirties up a little when vol is increased.Quite nice! and controllable with guitar pot .I also tried a Zoom g1xnext through the loop and was VERY surprised at how well it controlled the master vol issue, didn`t seem to add or subtract anthing from the sound. With this m-fx you can adjust the effect patch level (just set all effects to OFF and store as vol boost) AND the output vol of the pedal itself WITHOUT adding any kind of overdrive. It works purely as a clean boost, and with the output on full IT DOES BOOST!! You can then also attenuate the amp with the assignable foot-rocker(wah). For me, it seems to work really well. So yes, it may be worth trying a dedicated volume pedal. Actually the whole pedal sounds really good through the clean ,(the clean channel on this amp IS very strong) but can still always use through the loop for other effects. I have also got an Electro-Harmonix passive attenuator but it doesn`t seem to work as transparently (through the loop) as the Zoom.All the best. Kev.

[Crunchifyable]

Thats cool to hear Kev. I tried a 10 year old Zoom 505 (mk i) a while ago, but it was too noisy / sucked the treble out. People can complain about the MA and stuff, but its light years better than what my friends and I used when we started (zoom and digitech units + random clean amps).

The od I was getting on the clean channel wasn't bad, and I sort of wouldn't mind having some grit on it. I guess I just am idealistic about getting my distortion from the tubes Plus one of the great things about the MA is I can have gain 4/ crunch balance 10 and still get squeaky clean sounds from single coils, and plenty of dirt on a bridge humbucker.

I guess the newer multi-fx units have come a long way in terms of not producing unwanted noise / signal loss.

I do the same thing with my digitech to use the foot pedal to control volume. It was a little too sensitive for my taste, but seems to be the best option I have. Funny thing is, the more you think about these digital effects, the more ways you find to tweak them. Mine actually has some pretty good stomp box models in it, but I never got to use the delays, verbs, choruses etc with it in front of the amp. I had been mostly using it as a tuner and a clean booster. They do say to use them in the loop if your amp has one, so I bet they are made well for that purpose (If you know how to set them up :D)

Eventually I'm just going to get an eq up front for boosting or mid / treble boosting, and an eq in the loop for tone shaping and lowering the sound. Here the Danelectro fish and chips EQs are about $30 US, which means they are pretty handy at giving me 7 bands of EQ and 15 db of boost and cut.

The effect in front of the amp is subtle, but its great for tweaking how an amp distorts. I did a little test recording the other day and basically did a decent job of making my es-335 type sound brighter, like a LP or even a strat, and tricked an amp into distorting more on the top three strings than on the bottom http://www.tonefinder.com/index.php?sec ... alue=11869 . Now I see why treble boosters were so popular back in the day - you get lead and rhythm on one channel, without even having to play with volume knobs :D

[washburn 1]

Crunchi
I`m very lucky, my amp is very noise free in general , no complaints there. The Zoom pedal also works silently either through the loop or channel.I know what you mean about wanting `tube` distortion and i dont want to become a `tube snob` but they DO sound `better`!! Dont really use that pedal too much, the wife bought it for me to use `indoors` , i dont think she was fussed about having a pedal board laying around the lounge floor as well but i cant complain with what else she accepts. It didn`t seem to suit my sound city very well but the MA seems a lot more tolerant of it (and it is neat). Still prefer my old analog pedals though (oops! analog pedal snob coming through now!!) ARGHH! dont get me wrong, it`s actually pretty good, i just dont like `PATCHES`, my memory isn`t good enough! i can never remember what i`ve put on what , and where, would rather do a bit of tap dancing , guess i`m just old-fashioned, and tend to go in dry indoors (if you know what i mean). Think i listen to too much old AC/DC, still nothing wrong with that !!! But as regards `tube` tone, i think it`s important to start off with the amp sounding and responding correctly first BUT, how many top class guitarists tend to use modern (tranny) effects pedals to enhance their tone anyway!! Cheers, Kev.

[Nebulozny]

I used Boss SD-1 in my loop and I kinda liked slight grit on the clean channel, sterile super-cleans are not my thing.

I tried Eq pedal but it only served as master volume, fizz remains, so only solution for getting rid of fizz and volume control was SD-1 , at least for my taste.

[Crunchifyable]

And for me it isn't really a question of liking or not wanting grit on the cleans.

I don't mind a 1 channel amp with a little dirt. I guess I am just traditional, in the sense that everyone from Jimi onward uses fuzz/od up front, then pre-amp tubes, then power amp sizzle. And I honestly do find that the stomp boxes don't clean up as well as tubes do. Close, but not close enough

Now what would be really cool if someone could create a box that emulates the sound of power tubes being driven for amp effects loops. I guess that idea would have sold better before the popularity of powerscaling (even bugeras are going to have 1 to 100 watt power scaling now...).

Here's something else that might work well in the loop. It's basically an A-B box by Behringer, sells for $20 US, needs power though, but my experience shows that powered devices tend to have better control than my unpowered 25k pots (which had volume jumps). Behringer isn't known for the best stuff obviously. It would temp me, except I think I may be content with an EQ in the loop.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/AB100.aspx

[washburn 1]

Crunchi

Today i tried my old yamaha comp/s`stain pedal through the loop. It sounds great, The vol control works really well and when you wind up the sus` pot it doesn`t seem to audibly compress whats going into the power amp but it does give it a LOT of guts, although it must compress just enough because it gets rid off all the fizz and it doesn`t colour the sound. The pedal is obviously designed to be clean but boosts nicely. The power section seems to need help with compresion.Of course if you want to tame the vol it actually works much better than my E-HMX passive attenuator, that seems to veil the sound by comparision. Turning off the pedal loosens the whole amp up. Think i may well use this set up from now on as it all sounds so solid. The more i use this amp the more i fathom out the controls and realise how interactive they are, they do need careful adjustment, as many amps do. Would be worth you trying a (proper) comp box if you have one, i also tried the comp on my (digital) fx but it didn`t do the same job, just sounded harsh. Cheers, Kev.

[Crunchifyable]

Yes, well I know some people will scoff at using compressors in the loop, but almost all recorded guitars are compressed after they are recorded, and there is a similar compression that happens at volume with power tubes, so I would imagine that a compressor in the loop would make any amp come alive a bit more, since you can vary your gain by pick attack while having the same overall volume. Good to hear it worked for you.