Help me line up my pedals

[surfnorthwest]

Historically I have used rack gear for my effects. Since I got away from that and have some pedals I am at a bit of a loss as to the best way to line them up. My two marshalls have a loop but I currently don't run anything in there. And since I run both heads I am going to patch the Return on the Vm into the Send on the DSL that way both heads can use the effects.

Below is a list of my pedals and how they are currently lined up, it sounds OK but there must be a better way to do it. If some of you guys could recommend a better way to line them up let me know.

Guitar> Fulltone Wah> Fulltone OCD Overdrive> MXR EVH-117 Flange>
MXR M-107 Phase 100> Voodoo Labs Microvibe> MXR M169 Carbon Copy

[Kongels]

If you gave me those pedals, which you are welcome to, I would probably put them in this order to try out first-

Wah, OCD, Phase (try it first also), Microvibe, Flange, Delay

I would also put a keeler looper after the OCD to remove everything else from the chain. The Phase pedal is the one I am not sure about, nvr used one, but I know guys put them first or all over the chain.

[TonyC]

Maybe I got it wrong, but are you skipping the VM preamp and letting the DSL preamp drive both heads?

[MKB]

My two marshalls have a loop but I currently don't run anything in there. And since I run both heads I am going to patch the Return on the Vm into the Send on the DSL that way both heads can use the effects.

Your pedal lineup sounds OK, but I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with the effects loop. Connecting the amps like that will only give you the tone of the power amp of the VM, with the preamp of the DSL as a drive for it. This would only seem useful if you need to make the entire amp setup sound like the DSL, only twice as loud (using the DSL preamp to drive the DSL and VM output amps, each into a different cab). It doesn't allow you to use all of the VM.

Why not leave the effects loop unconnected and run a Y-cable from the output of the Carbon Copy into both amps input, or use a buffered amp input switcher(A-B box)? That would allow you to set both amps up to do what they do best and still share the pedals.

[surfnorthwest]

Why not leave the effects loop unconnected and run a Y-cable from the output of the Carbon Copy into both amps input, or use a buffered amp input switcher(A-B box)? That would allow you to set both amps up to do what they do best and still share the pedals.

Thanks, that is what I am going to do.

[HydroPnik]

Order of pedal chain is always a tough one to figure out...I'm still and probably will always try to figure out the best order. It looks like you have the chain in the right order already. I found a Q&A article with Robert Keeley where he walks through the best order of pedals and the reason why. In short he says the best order is "Guitar - Wah, Compressor, Overdrive, EQ, Vibrato, Chorus, Tremolo, Volume Pedal, and Delay - Amp". Here's the article if you want to know the why's -> http://www.premierguitar.com/archive/mo ... r/0903.htm

[TonyC]

In short he says the best order is "Guitar - Wah, Compressor, Overdrive, EQ, Vibrato, Chorus, Tremolo, Volume Pedal, and Delay - Amp

I fully agree with that. That's exactly the order I keep my effects in, though I have chorus, delay and reverb in the loop since I don't like having them distorted by the preamp.

[slowpokerhino]

Putting the vibe before the overdrive is a common variation. It changes the character a a little bit. Kind of like putting the wah after the overdrive. You may not like it, but it's worth a try.

[lowenzz]

My general is overdrive/ modulation/ and time based. wahs, fuzzes and phasers can be exceptions as to their place ment in the chain.

[lowenzz]

My two marshalls have a loop but I currently don't run anything in there. And since I run both heads I am going to patch the Return on the Vm into the Send on the DSL that way both heads can use the effects.

Your pedal lineup sounds OK, but I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with the effects loop. Connecting the amps like that will only give you the tone of the power amp of the VM, with the preamp of the DSL as a drive for it. This would only seem useful if you need to make the entire amp setup sound like the DSL, only twice as loud (using the DSL preamp to drive the DSL and VM output amps, each into a different cab). It doesn't allow you to use all of the VM.

Why not leave the effects loop unconnected and run a Y-cable from the output of the Carbon Copy into both amps input, or use a buffered amp input switcher(A-B box)? That would allow you to set both amps up to do what they do best and still share the pedals.

agreed, I use the dual stereo outs on my H20 to go dry into my VM and wet into my pro reverb.

[lowenzz]

My general is overdrive/ modulation/ and time based. wahs, fuzzes and phasers can be exceptions as to their place ment in the chain.

Guitar Player Magazine just did a great article on this whole topic in their May 2008 issue.
With the exception of fuzz pedals generally the guitar goes into the wah first then your drive pedals then your modulation pedals
then your delay and reverb. Sometimes old school germanium fuzz pedals need to be first in the chain because they need to interact directly
with the guitar for that magic clean up effect to occur when you roll back your guitar volume knob down.
The pick up and volume knob becomes part of the fuzz's circuit, treble boosters can be overly bright when placed after a buffered pedal.
The only exception to this rule would be the wah fuzz pedals can go before or after the wah however If you place some fuzz pedals after the wah
you may need a buffer added to the wah in order for it to function better, to insure the wah won't lose it's tone or sweep.
I use a boss TU-12 tuner as my buffer at the end of my effects rig going to the amp.
It's all a matter of preference but the bottom line is your tone will be effected on how you place your pedal order.
I personally like my fuzz after my wah. My set up I have now makes it complicated I had to compromise in order to get all my pedals to sound good
together It takes some time and experimentation but you will know when you hear what works for you.
My set up is as follows
Fender Strat-Kr the Fuzz-Fulltone Clyde Deluxe-Lovepedal COT50 Red-Lovepedal Eternity-Voodoo Labs Micro Vibe-MXR Carbon Copy analog delay-Boss TU-12 Tuner-amp

The new MXR 108 FUZZ has a buffer that eliminates this problem once engaged the buffer activates
and you eliminate all that unwanted noise that occurs with silicon fuzz's so you can use the MXR after the wah no problem

General rule of thumb
1 filters
2 compressors
3 distortion/overdrives
4 modulation
5 volume pedal
6 delay and reverb

I think I just got SERVED :oops:

[thehubinator]

I almost sold my 2266 head over this issue. I moved the head from downstairs to up and when I reconnected the cords, I did it backwards, I.E. Wah last in the loop instead of first, and I could not dial in a tone I liked. It took my dumb ass a month to realise what I did and a 5 second switcharoo and I was back in tone heaven! It was kind of like the blanket over the amp effect combined with too much body dialed in. Mud city with no harmonics. I was shocked shitless that it made this big of a difference with this amp as I had done this before with other amps and while it did make a difference, it wasn't as night/day as it was with the VM. :oops:

[TonyC]

thehubinator, what was your first pedal in the chain when you had it connected backwards?

I have an old Dunlop Hendrix Wah and when it's the very first pedal in the chain it takes away plenty of highs becuase of it's low impedance input. To cure this I have my Boss TU-2 first since the input impedance is high and it buffers the signal before it's sent to the Wah. I still see it as having the Wah as my first pedal... the tuner does nothing other than acting as a proper receiver of the signal from the guitar.

[thehubinator]

thehubinator, what was your first pedal in the chain when you had it connected backwards?

I have an old Dunlop Hendrix Wah and when it's the very first pedal in the chain it takes away plenty of highs becuase of it's low impedance input. To cure this I have my Boss TU-2 first since the input impedance is high and it buffers the signal before it's sent to the Wah. I still see it as having the Wah as my first pedal... the tuner does nothing other than acting as a proper receiver of the signal from the guitar.

It was delay,overdrive,eq,then wah. Now its wah, eq o.d., and delay. How I did it is I have 2 20 ft. cables one goes to guitar to wah, one from delay to amp input, and they were identical, Now I use a 90 degree for the guitar so I don't make that mistake again. All I have to say about what I did is "Holy tone suck Batman!!!"